[ How did you guys meet and get into groundhopping? ]

We are from the same town and only one year apart, so we’ve known each other from childhood onwards, but we never really hung out or anything.

Then, in 2022, we were both on the same flight from Treviso to London to watch some football games. We didn’t know that the other was going - and we went to different games. But that’s basically how it started, like, ‘oh, you’re also into football!’ From that trip, we kept in contact and then, quite quickly, I think, realized that we have a similar hobby - and more than that, a similar view on what football is, what it means to us and what kind of football we are looking for on our travels.

So, it wasn’t hard to start hanging out and start going on trips together. Now, we’re 4 years and 3 magazines later and still going.

[ I think, especially as a youth, there are people who like playing football but aren’t really following football, or ‘football fans’ per se and there are people who are consuming everything around football. Were you always ‘football obsessives’ or was that something that came later? ]

We both played football but just in youth teams and not anymore but I think we were both really into football and watching a lot of games on television and supporting our local team. But never groundhopping when we were youths.

Now and in the last 4 years, we’ve stepped up quite a lot with the number of games in a season - now, we visit between 60 to 110 matches a year.

As you mentioned, some people are into football, but only the playing side, and some people are into football from every possible perspective, and I think that one perspective that always brought us closer to football was the fans' perspective.

I remember when going to my first ‘bigger’ games, for example, Udinese in Serie A, and I spent more time looking at the fans on the curva than at the football pitch! That is something we both have in common - this is the side of football that is most attractive to us. When it comes to our magazines, we don’t write about tactics or things like this, we are focused on everything around the stadium, the fans, the culture, the pregame and all this - not only football.

[ How do you plan your trips - and how far in advance? Has this changed over time? ]

Yeah, it definitely has changed! I think one of the big things that has changed - when we started, we were still students, so we had a lot of free time and could go every weekend somewhere. Now, we have to plan a bit more carefully, but luckily, our jobs allow us to travel quite often, so it’s not a big issue.

We have some games and stadiums in mind before each season of course but sometimes you see how the season develops, often there are interesting stories that make you want to visit a certain stadium, club or country. So it’s a mix.

Our travels are much different before and after the magazine. Before the magazine, we went to the game, drank two beers, went out in the evening and that was it. Now we are much more structured. We contact the fans for interviews, contact the club, get press accreditation - we always photograph from the pitch, not from the stands anymore. Then, after the game, we upload and publish the pictures and everything.

[ When you’re preparing for a trip - who are the people you want to get in touch with? What makes a good trip in this regard? ]

Firstly, we try to get photo accreditation, so we contact the club and speak with the SLO (supporter liaison officer), who is responsible for the interaction between the club and the fans.

And then, to speak with the fans, we are usually going through Instagram or some connections - when you’re traveling for a few years, you get to know someone in almost every country who can help with interesting connections.

But you have to keep in mind that the ‘ultras world’ can be really closed to the outside. So, if you don’t know somebody personally who can recommend you, or something like this, it’s quite hard to get the contact.

It depends a bit on the country and the ‘ultra-culture’ in this country, some countries are open to outsiders and will accept you and speak to you but some countries, I think the biggest case here is Germany or Switzerland, if you don’t know somebody personally from the Ultras group, you will never get access to it. In countries that are really closed, we don’t even try to get access because we know that sometimes it’s better that the scene stays closed.

[ Are you also meeting other groundhoppers when you're going on trips? How would you describe the community around groundhopping? ]

Yeah, often. We know quite a lot of ‘hoppers’ around Europe by now and we usually stay in contact afterwards and we always help each other with tips, tickets and things like that. Because we have a similar hobby, we usually get along well and it’s really fun.

To us, it's a really nice community. I like the fact that people - at least 99.9% of the time, are not competing, but just enjoying themselves. Wherever you go, if you need help with something, there is always a groundhopper that will help you out, no one has ever screwed us over for anything. We’ve met really nice people all over the world and it keeps things interesting.

[ Where in the stadium do you sit? In the ultra section? ]

No, we are never in the ultra section, because we respect them and their culture. As we are not supporting the club as they are, I think it’s not appropriate for us to sit there and be with them. Mostly, we try to get accreditation and then we are on the pitch (side). Otherwise, we are in the main stand.

[ Are you often returning to certain stadiums or is a stadium more or less ‘checked off’ once you’ve been there? ]

It really depends, of course, we like to visit new places but it’s not about ticking off stadiums for us. If we enjoy it, we like to go again. For example, we really liked Wydad and Raja Casablanca in Morocco - they play in the same stadium and we visited them both in 2023 and we’ve visited them again this year. So, we’ve been at that stadium - Mohammed V - four times already.

For us, we don’t really care much about the numbers - the quality of the fans and the atmosphere is more important - if it’s good, we don’t have any problems revisiting.

[ Are you active on Futbology - or a similar app - to track your games? ]

Yes - we like to have the exact evidence of the games!

Some games, when we were 6, 7 or 8 years old at our local club, we don’t remember exactly all of the games we were at, of course, but we have the exact number of stadiums and countries. It’s nice to track your numbers and see all the ‘stats’ about all the stadiums, countries, clubs, everything.

It's also really great for planning and finding the matches around, especially lower league matches, for e.g. Serie A, you know all the matches but maybe for the Italian fourth league, you don’t and you can see a few matches that you wouldn’t have known about.

[ Do you have any ‘rules’ for what counts as a stadium/ground? ]

I think the only rule that we set is that, if you want to call it a stadium, then it needs to have at least some kind of a stand. Even if it’s for only 20 people, that’s enough but it can’t just be a pitch with nothing around it - then we don’t count it.

And, you have to be there for the full match! In the case that you’re late for reasons that aren’t your fault or something like this, then it’s okay - but you can’t leave early.

[ Seems to be more of an issue in some countries/clubs than others but I’ve seen some criticism of groundhopping from supporters who don’t want them there because e.g. they don’t contribute to the atmosphere or are even taking tickets from ‘real’ fans - what do you think? ]

This is a really good topic. I think, from our point of view, we get why ultras are bothered by groundhoppers, but only in cases that groundhoppers buy the cheapest ticket available in their curva. If you buy the ticket in the long stand, I think it's perfectly fine, and nobody should be offended or bothered by this.

And, when we hear this, groundhoppers ‘taking’ the tickets of the people that actually support the club - I think if you're able to buy the ticket from a club that you don't support, then also the people that support that club should be able to buy it.

[ When you travel for a match, do you also try to do ‘non-football things’? ]

I think that every year we do less touristic things and more and more matches and stadiums and interviews and stuff like this. Still, we always like to visit at least the city center and go for a walk and see maybe one or two of the biggest attractions.

But, when you go somewhere and meet someone who is a local there and you get to know them and speak over a beer or two, at some point, you always come to things that are not 100% related to football and this is a way to get a feeling for the local community and the town itself. So, in this way, the activities go hand in hand.

[ Have you noticed any changes around the match going experience since you started going to football matches? ]

With each stadium or country visited, we start spotting more small details that we wouldn’t have seen 5 years ago. Now, we notice a lot of things that can make a big difference - whether it’s graffiti in front of the stadium or how the fans are dressed, we see things in more detail now.

Another big change - when we started, you had to print the ticket, now it’s all digital. At first, we tried to collect all the tickets for the games but we gave up! At some stadiums it’s impossible to exchange the digital ticket with a printed one, so you can never have a full collection.

And, overall, the stadiums are newer and, I think, more boring. All the stadiums are in the same shape and, I don’t know how to say it, fewer and fewer stadiums are designed to stand out.

[ Why did you decide to start a magazine? ]

Since I was probably in high school, I wanted to have my own magazine. And then, when we started talking more seriously about it, I went on Erasmus to Athens. I had basically nothing to do with my studies, so all my efforts went into groundhopping!

We were visiting so many stadiums and we wanted to have something - in physical form - we could look back at in 10 years and remember all these things. Because you go to the stadium, you take photos with your phone and then you never look at them again and all those memories and little details that you think you will remember in 10 years - you will always forget them.

We talked a lot and decided, maybe let’s do a magazine. The first magazine was more, not quite a diary, but more ‘match reports’ from our perspective about how we felt. Now it’s become much more professional - I think! - and journalistic.

So, I think the main motivation was to have something we could look back at in 10 years and remember all the details. And then, we got some extra motivation when we published the first magazine. We didn’t have any expectations or anything but we sold out, I think 150 copies in 3 weeks - and that really motivated us to do the second and keep going.

[ How do you think about what clubs, leagues or countries you want to highlight? What makes a good story? ]

Well, the first problem is always to sort out our free days at our jobs! But once we’ve decided, let’s say, at the end of November, we will go on a trip. Then, we prepare a few options and see what’s best. We always try to go with the car first and then with cheap plane tickets. We don’t really say, ‘we want to see this club now’ but if the moment, the price and the fan scene is good - and not boycotting or something like this - we’ll go.

We generally don’t decide to ‘follow’ a club throughout a season, but, for example, last season, Padova was playing in the third Italian division and they had a really bad stadium situation, so the fans boycotted the home games and were only going to away games. We decided to follow their season more closely and include it in our magazine. I went to 3 or 4 games and we did a big article with interviews with fans about the whole situation and how it is boycotting home games, etc.

We try to look for stories that are interesting to the fans but are not mentioned in mainstream media.

[ Why are certain fan scenes, especially at lower levels, more interesting or more compelling than bigger clubs? e.g. why is going to Real Madrid or Barcelona not an exciting story? ]

The quick answer would be, at Real Madrid and Barcelona, 60% or 70% or even more people in the stadium are tourists. We’re searching for local fans, for fans that have some proper connection with their club and feel their club in a certain way. You won’t find this at Barcelona or Real Madrid or in the whole of the Premier League - that’s why we’re not going there.

Real Madrid and Barcelona used to have proper fans and also proper ultras, but I think the club boards, over the years, intentionally keep them out because it’s much better financially to have tourists in the stadium. And this is not what we’re looking for.

In lower leagues, we are really excited about the small details. Maybe you can say it like this - I’m happier seeing 100 Italian ultras in the 5th division than the full stadium of Real Madrid.

[ How long does it take to prepare one magazine and send it out? ]

If we don’t count the matches that are happening and just the production, then maybe 4 months - but probably even more. That’s a lot because we have normal jobs and do this on weekends and evenings, so it’s a long process. If we knew before how much work is involved, I don’t know if we’d go into the magazine business! There’s always more work than you can foresee.

For example, now we have published the magazine, and you think, okay, now we have done everything, now we can just sit down and see if there will be any orders. In reality, yesterday we spent the whole afternoon doing some more photos of the magazine. Today, we will take another set of photos. There’s always something more.

So, if it takes 4 months to produce the magazine, then you also need a lot of time after to promote it. Even basic stuff, like setting an ad on Facebook, if you want to do it properly, it takes a lot of time and research. Or being active on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, it takes a lot of time to post everything.

Some of the articles are also really time consuming. We were in Brazil in September and you go to the game in the evening, you take 500 photos, you come home at 1 in the morning and then edit the photos until 4am. Then, when you wake up, you want to drink a coffee and relax but you have to post everything! It can be a bit exhausting sometimes.

[ Is it just the two of you, or do you get help/employees for certain parts? ]

We’re just two people. All the photos, videos, graphic design, everything is us! This morning, we were preparing the packages for shipment, for example. Basically, we started doing something and realized, maybe we should have someone else to help us!

[ Do you have favorite countries or cities to visit? ]

Morocco! For the ultra scene, it's the best country. If you consider the pure number of fans in the ultra sections and the level of support, it’s Morocco.

The second country that we really visit a lot is Italy. It’s hard to explain to someone who hasn’t been there, but they have some kind of charm that you don’t find anywhere else in Europe. When you go to the stadium there, you can feel that there are 50+ years of tradition in those seats and the people going and actively supporting them for so many years, that you don’t have in other countries.

This last season, for example, we went quite a lot to the Czech Republic. They are good, but they didn’t have that something special that Italy has. And, of course, we live basically 500 meters from the Italian border, which really helps!

[ What are the things you like seeing most from the ultra section? Are you e.g. hoping to see pyro or tifos? ]

I think it's a mix of everything. In the latest magazine, we talked about Slavia Prague - they make a tifo for every game - but then you go to the match and the songs are not so long, the volume is not so loud or the voice is not the same compared to some Italian teams like Genoa, Sampdoria, Milan, etc, because you hear the tradition in the songs.

So, because of this, it’s a mix of everything. It’s not just that we want to see a big pyro show, we want to see everything.

[ What kind of goals do you have for Photo Curva? Would you want this to be your ‘main job’? ]

I don't think that we do this for money - if it’s for the money, we would choose a different business! It’s for, let’s say, a bit of pride and happiness.

We still have some groundhopping goals - like, I want to fulfill all the grounds in Serie A and Serie B in Italy - but for the magazine. I don’t know.

When we started, we didn’t even think about finances, and now, after 3 magazines, of course, it would be nice to make some money, but I don’t think it’s possible that two people live from this.

I think the biggest prize for what we are doing now will come in 10 or 20 years, when we have something in physical form to look back on. Because now, by the time the magazine comes out in print, we’ve gone through the whole magazine so many times, I’m sick of it - I can’t look at it!

So, I’m waiting for my memory to ‘disappear’ and then I can read it in peace.